The Eligibility Roast Post
Jan. 31st, 2020 10:44 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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villainous_big_bang This is the official Eligibility Roast Post! (I did not do that on purpose, but why change a good thing?)
This will open officially on February 15th, but there's definitely some folks already excited - so from now until Feb 15th, comments will be screened. This means you can post your roast, but rebuttals and confirmations of eligibility won't start happening until the 15th.
Comments are unscreened! You can still post new comments, but now you can respond as well - let the counter-roasting BEGIN!
This post closes for comments on the 29th.
Here's how this works. Comment below with your argument concerning a villain from any piece of media - anime, video game, concept album, group of advertisements, any fictional medium with something resembling a Story - and why they are, in fact, a villain. You can be as daring as you want, but here are the main things your argument needs to cover.
1) Does the story seem to think this character is a villain?
2) Is the character villainous from the perspective of other characters?
3) Is the character villainous from the perspective of readers?
The format is pretty loose, but here's an example for one of the villains already on the list.
TITLE: ENVY (FMA 2003) ROAST
"Envy from Fullmetal Alchemist (2003) is a villain of the worst kind - he's cruel, sadistic and self-centered. He's most known for the murder of a beloved fan-favourite, but he also taunts the main characters with their own mistakes and uses his shape-shifting powers to get into people's heads. He never shows any remorse, and while he has a sympathetic backstory, it only shows up at the end and doesn't excuse any of his actions. He also beats the crap out of a ten-year-old, more than once, which just solidifies the case for him being a Grade-A Asshole."
Please include the specific franchise they're from (if you want to make a case for Envy from FMA; Brotherhood that's a new post!), list some of their misdeeds and in general keep in mind that the mods have not seen or read most of the franchises you'll likely be referencing.
If you would like to REBUT somebody's villain roast, just reply to their comment and explain why the character is - in your view - not a villain! Keep in mind that while Serious Meta is entertaining in its own right, this is largely just for fun. If you start getting really, truly personally invested in whether we do or don't see a character as a villain, take a moment to go catch your breath.
What villain is NOT code for:
'ethically wrong to like' character
pedophile
monster with no redeeming qualities (it's true for some of them, but not all!)
unredeemable
unlikeable
What eligibility roasts should NOT do:
'This is why [X] was justified'
'Sure, it was genocide, but it wasn't THAT bad.'
Otherwise downplay the villainous deeds - that's the exact opposite of what we want!
As villains are approved, they'll appear on the eligibility list.
Comments are unscreened! You can still post new comments, but now you can respond as well - let the counter-roasting BEGIN!
This post closes for comments on the 29th.
Here's how this works. Comment below with your argument concerning a villain from any piece of media - anime, video game, concept album, group of advertisements, any fictional medium with something resembling a Story - and why they are, in fact, a villain. You can be as daring as you want, but here are the main things your argument needs to cover.
1) Does the story seem to think this character is a villain?
2) Is the character villainous from the perspective of other characters?
3) Is the character villainous from the perspective of readers?
The format is pretty loose, but here's an example for one of the villains already on the list.
TITLE: ENVY (FMA 2003) ROAST
"Envy from Fullmetal Alchemist (2003) is a villain of the worst kind - he's cruel, sadistic and self-centered. He's most known for the murder of a beloved fan-favourite, but he also taunts the main characters with their own mistakes and uses his shape-shifting powers to get into people's heads. He never shows any remorse, and while he has a sympathetic backstory, it only shows up at the end and doesn't excuse any of his actions. He also beats the crap out of a ten-year-old, more than once, which just solidifies the case for him being a Grade-A Asshole."
Please include the specific franchise they're from (if you want to make a case for Envy from FMA; Brotherhood that's a new post!), list some of their misdeeds and in general keep in mind that the mods have not seen or read most of the franchises you'll likely be referencing.
If you would like to REBUT somebody's villain roast, just reply to their comment and explain why the character is - in your view - not a villain! Keep in mind that while Serious Meta is entertaining in its own right, this is largely just for fun. If you start getting really, truly personally invested in whether we do or don't see a character as a villain, take a moment to go catch your breath.
What villain is NOT code for:
'ethically wrong to like' character
pedophile
monster with no redeeming qualities (it's true for some of them, but not all!)
unredeemable
unlikeable
What eligibility roasts should NOT do:
'This is why [X] was justified'
'Sure, it was genocide, but it wasn't THAT bad.'
Otherwise downplay the villainous deeds - that's the exact opposite of what we want!
As villains are approved, they'll appear on the eligibility list.
Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-15 11:05 am (UTC)The Condescense: Evil empress of a galactic empire, tries to wipe out humankind, ruthlessly kills her own people when they try to rise against her.
Horror Terrors: Basically the Homestuck version of the Cthulhu mythos, ancient elder gods who drive people to madness and lurk out in space instead of in the depths of the ocean.
Neophyte Redglare: Part of an evil empire, is the troll version of a lawyer upholding terrible, terrible blood caste laws.
Harry Potter villains
Date: 2020-02-15 11:07 am (UTC)Gellert Grindelwald: Caused a massive war, magic-user supremacist, kills people, KILLED A SMALL LITTLE MAGICAL CREATURE THAT ONLY WANTED TO BE LOVED -- actually screw this, I don't want to write him anymore, but I'm nominating him in case someone else does. I liked him much more as Albus' evil gay boyfriend instead of KILLER OF INNOCENT CREATURES.
Prince of Tennis villains
Date: 2020-02-15 11:15 am (UTC)Hajime Mizuki: Manipulative ASSHOLE! Not so much about the physical damage but emotionally manipulates Yuuta Fuji and has a weird obsession with Yuuta's brother. He's just so smart and evil and I love it.
Kevin Smith: Arrogant, stubborn and hurts several players during tennis matches JUST to get the protag's attention. Seriously, he just travels from school to school, smashing people up physically during games of tennis, so Ryoma will notice him.
Jin Akutsu: "In striking contrast to his former karate classmate Kawamura, Akutsu is very violent, stirring up trouble wherever he goes. Akutsu plays tennis violently and is widely known around Tokyo as a young bully. Students at both Seigaku and Ginka have been his victims. " - taken from the wiki!
Re: Yuugiou villains
Date: 2020-02-15 09:56 pm (UTC)Death-T was a trip, y’all.
Re: Homura Akemi (Madoka Magika) Roast
Date: 2020-02-15 10:11 pm (UTC)HOWEVER I definitely want some more folks chiming in on this one!
Re: Jason Todd (Batman) Roast
Date: 2020-02-15 10:14 pm (UTC)Re: Silmarilion/Lord of the Rings
Date: 2020-02-15 10:14 pm (UTC)Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-15 10:16 pm (UTC)I am sceered.
Caliborn is a No Duh though, especially given that he's Lord English.
Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-15 10:17 pm (UTC)Re: Harry Potter villains
Date: 2020-02-15 10:20 pm (UTC)My theory is that the basilisk was supposed to be a "hey so we can use this against any rampaging hordes of racists and witch-hunters if they so happen to hear from their kid about the magic school".
Junko Enoshima (Dangan Ronpa) Roast
Date: 2020-02-16 03:32 am (UTC)Re: Harry Potter villains
Date: 2020-02-16 04:58 am (UTC)https://pottermore.fandom.com/wiki/Purebloods
"Salazar Slytherin was the founder of Slytherin house at Hogwarts. He was one of the first recorded Parselmouths, an accomplished Legilimens, and a notorious champion of pure-blood supremacy."
https://pottermore.fandom.com/wiki/Salazar_Slytherin_Chocolate_Frog_Card
"The term 'pure-blood' refers to a family or individual without Muggle (non-magic) blood. The concept is generally associated with Salazar Slytherin, one of the four founders of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, whose aversion to teaching anybody of Muggle parentage eventually led to a breach with his three fellow founders, and his resignation from the school." - Pottermore ergo Word of God/author intent
""We’ll teach just those whose ancestry’s purest." - Sorting Hat song, with the Sorting Hat having known Salazar personally and been enchanted by him.
We know the Basilisk and its Chamber can only be entered by Parseltongue speakers, which none of the Founders were. It seems rather odd to create and lock away a weapon that only people who are specifically of your bloodline (and therefore presumably purebloods) can use :P Not to mention that it specifically was attacking CHILDREN who studied in the school, and that it was only bred by Dark Wizards because it had been BANNED as an example of the Dark Arts re: animal breeding. He also wanted to TEACH the Dark Arts to children (not defending against it, the actual Dark Arts), so I'd say that's fairly worrisome right there.
https://www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/chamber-of-secrets
Plus, JKR's Pottermore article says:
"Slytherin's discrimination on the basis of parentage was considered an unusual and misguided view by the majority of wizards at the time. Contemporary literature suggests that Muggle-borns were not only accepted, but often considered to be particularly gifted. They went by the affectionate name of 'Magbobs' (there has been much debate about the origin of the term, but it seems most likely to be that in such a case, magic 'bobbed up' out of nowhere)."
So it's literally only Salazar who was worried about them, kind of the same way that any racist group loves to blow dogwhistles and use fear of another group to arm themselves and claim to be 'defending their people'. Nothing was ever said about him being scared of the Muggle parents of Muggleborns. When JKR talked about witch trials and witch hunts, she made it clear that mostly Muggles were killed AND when it was witches/wizards being killed, it was because a group of wizards/witches called the Scourers took advantage of it to falsely accuse other magical people and kill them.
"“Far away from the jurisdiction of their native magical governments, many indulged a love of authority and cruelty unjustified by their mission,” Rowling writes. “Such Scourers enjoyed bloodshed and torture, and even went so far as trafficking their fellow wizards.”
On their power trip, at least two Scourers, Rowling says, were partly responsible for the Salem Witch Trials, which massacred a number of “utterly innocent” witches, as well as some non-magical settlers. Salem, Rowling reveals, altered the course of history for American wizardry. It caused a mass exodus of witches and wizards from America and scared most pure-blood families still overseas from emigrating to the New World. For that reason, the majority of subsequent American wizards were Muggle-born, which prevented pure-blood elitism from taking over in North America the way it did in Europe (later perpetuated by Voldemort and his cult of Death Eaters)."
The threat to wizards never came from Muggles. It came from other wizards. They were the ones killing witches and wizards over ancient blood feuds, which, let's face it, most Muggleborns wouldn't have because they wouldn't have been part of the Magical world long enough to build up such hatred and feuds! If Salazar ever pretended that the magical world was in danger from them, especially back when human technology was so limited, it would've been the same sort of racist dogma as Hitler trying to make the Jews seem like a threat, or Trump claiming Mexicans are invading. It'd be nothing but cheap self-justification for his own prejudices which history does not bear out.
JKR has been explicit about pureblood prejudice being a bad thing, including comparing it to the Nazis/Holocaust in an FAQ on her old official site, now archived on the Wayback Machine"
"Why are some people in the wizarding world (e.g., Harry) called 'half-blood' even though both their parents were magical?
The expressions 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' have been coined by people to whom these distinctions matter, and express their originators' prejudices. As far as somebody like Lucius Malfoy is concerned, for instance, a Muggle-born is as 'bad' as a Muggle. Therefore Harry would be considered only 'half' wizard, because of his mother's grandparents.
If you think this is far-fetched, look at some of the real charts the Nazis used to show what constituted 'Aryan' or 'Jewish' blood. I saw one in the Holocaust Museum in Washington when I had already devised the 'pure-blood', 'half-blood' and 'Muggle-born' definitions, and was chilled to see that the Nazis used precisely the same warped logic as the Death Eaters. A single Jewish grandparent 'polluted' the blood, according to their propaganda."
Ergo, by trying to restrict the school to only purebloods, Salazar was showing his prejudices quite clearly. I would say that level of bigotry alone, trying to deny an education to children based off their race, would classify him as a villain even without everything else.
After all, it's an analog to our world. If a government figure said that only white kids are allowed to attend an art school, there would be screams of segregation and racism immediately.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not arguing he's pure evil (I've written him before) but his beliefs are racist and well-documented in canon.
Re: Yuugiou villains
Date: 2020-02-16 04:59 am (UTC)Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-16 07:25 am (UTC)But there was also that bit where Rose got asked by Doc Scratch to check if the horrorterrors were evil, to which she received an incomprehensible answer and went grimdark which Homestuck decscribes as going "completely off the deep end in every way".
Mostly I went with the fact that they're inspired by/parallels to the Cthulhu mythos but you're right, nowhere is it explicitly said that they're evil.
Prince Yu (Nirvana in Fire) Roast
Date: 2020-02-16 05:21 pm (UTC)Prince Yu does have a sympathetic side; he badly wants his father's approval, and he has a tragic backstory which is pretty sad. But he wasn't actually aware of that tragic backstory until long after going down the path of villainy (like... it's to do with his birth mother and he has no idea about it until right before he pulls his whole "I'm going to murder my dad" scheme), and it doesn't change the fact that he gets a huge number of people killed. Other characters in the story find him everything from evil to vaguely distasteful. The main character, Mei Changsu, habitually calls him a "snake". Shen Zhui at one point says he wants a lightning bolt to fall on Prince Yu's head, and Jingyan seems to more or less agree with this viewpoint. Anyways. He's a villain.
Dio Brando and Enrico Pucci (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure)
Date: 2020-02-16 07:02 pm (UTC)Enrico Pucci is a follower of Dio who tries to resurrect him. Although him hiring a racist detective agency who attempted to lynch his brother was an accident, him stealing his brother's memories was not. He also tries to kill the heroes of his part in a variety of ways, steals the memories and powers of one of the previous protagonists, and almost succeeds at a total party wipeout at the end of his part. Oh, and his plan for resurrecting Dio involved destroying and then recreating the universe in his and Dio's ideal.
Star Wars villains (non-exhaustive, includes Legends)
Date: 2020-02-17 05:51 am (UTC)Dooku: in cahoots with Palpatine, wages civil war on the Republic with a droid army, kills some Jedi, trains an assassin, cuts off Anakin's hand...
Tenebrae: (Revan the novel but we'll see if I end up touching him because I don't have and never have had KoTOR) sucks all life force from planets for his own enrichment
additional Harry Potter villains
Date: 2020-02-17 06:01 am (UTC)Bellatrix Black Lestrange: supports Voldemort, tortures the Longbottoms to the point of breaking their brains, fights violently against teenagers, kills her cousin... etc.
Re: Harry Potter villains
Date: 2020-02-17 03:35 pm (UTC)Re: Hannibal (from the TV series)
Date: 2020-02-17 03:50 pm (UTC)Re: Star Wars: Deep Space Nine
Date: 2020-02-17 03:51 pm (UTC)Mirrorverse Worf also participates in the human slave trade. He captures mirrorverse!Garak and treats him like a literal dog (chained down with a collar) before realizing they could use each other, with both participating in the murder of the human freedom forces.
Re: Star Wars villains (non-exhaustive, includes Legends)
Date: 2020-02-17 03:59 pm (UTC)Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-17 03:59 pm (UTC)Re: Homestuck villains
Date: 2020-02-17 04:03 pm (UTC)Neophyte Redglare and the Horrorterrors are rejected as villains, but the Condescence, Dirk and Caliborn are approved! (RIP Dirk.)
Re: Star Wars: Deep Space Nine
Date: 2020-02-17 04:06 pm (UTC)